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    Senior Hostboard Member LowOhms's Avatar
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    Port size reduction, and Efficiency 825 & 828

    When modifying and reducing port size for a 825 or 828 A7 enclosure, are we also reducing the speaker's overall efficiency?

    If so, about how much, stock opening versus different final openings ( 100 inches, 75 inches, etc. ) ??


    Thanks, in advance.


    Jeff Medwin....Low Ohms

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    Senior Hostboard Member Elitopus1's Avatar
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    Re: Port size reduction, and Efficiency 825 & 828

    I'm sure it does make them less efficient. But who cares about all the pesky numbers if it sounds good?

    Its simple Hoffman's iron law. Trading efficiency for deep bass

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    Senior Hostboard Member LowOhms's Avatar
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    Re: Port size reduction, and Efficiency 825 & 828

    Quote Originally Posted by Elitopus1 View Post
    I'm sure it does make them less efficient. But who cares about all the pesky numbers if it sounds good?

    Its simple Hoffman's iron law. Trading efficiency for deep bass

    - - - - - - - - - - - - - -


    I'd like to know " How much less efficient??"

    - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

    For good reason E1, my audio world is low-powered tube amplification, typically about 3 Watts, direct coupled SET..

    I have GONE to Altec speakers, high efficiency, specifically so I can use such amps, which I typically DIY build. I have shown you some photos.

    I always have considered amplifiers, and not speakers, as being the weakest link in the audio playback chain.

    Thanks in advance.

    Jeff Medwin .... Low Ohms

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    Senior Hostboard Member Elitopus1's Avatar
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    Re: Port size reduction, and Efficiency 825 & 828

    When I changed the port size on my 828's, I was powering them with a little 6bq5 amp. I didn't notice any change in the balance between the LF and HF drivers.

    Maybe someone has made the change and measured it before and after.

    I built a new board for the front of my cabs with the smaller port. That way I can go back to stock if I ever wanted to

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    Senior Hostboard Member LowOhms's Avatar
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    Re: Port size reduction, and Efficiency 825 & 828

    E1,

    Thanks.

    "I built a new board for the front of my cabs with the smaller port. That way I can go back to stock if I ever wanted to."

    Thats what I would like to do, once I am ready to experiment. ( After I build my JJ 2A3-40 Mono amps ).

    Jeff

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    Senior Hostboard Member SD-50's Avatar
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    Re: Port size reduction, and Efficiency 825 & 828

    Reduced the A7 port size from stock to 75 square inches, prefer the smaller port as it seems to produce a tighter, more focused bass. As far as efficiency, did not perceive any change.
    The XO has gone through extensive upgrades since the port was reduced; wonder what they would sound like reverting to the stock port? Look into it when I have more time.
    Cheers

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    Junior Hostboard Member horndawg's Avatar
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    Re: Port size reduction, and Efficiency 825 & 828

    Quote Originally Posted by LowOhms View Post
    - - - - - - - - - - - - - -


    I'd like to know " How much less efficient??"

    - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

    For good reason E1, my audio world is low-powered tube amplification, typically about 3 Watts, direct coupled SET..

    I have GONE to Altec speakers, high efficiency, specifically so I can use such amps, which I typically DIY build. I have shown you some photos.

    I always have considered amplifiers, and not speakers, as being the weakest link in the audio playback chain.

    Thanks in advance.

    Jeff Medwin .... Low Ohms
    Output reduction in going from 182 in^2 to 78 in^2 occurs basically bellow 100 Hz, where the room dominates and so in practical terms efficiency is not affected. The attached sim assumes a 13 cu. ft. box and the port sizes are 7"x26" and 3"x26". Driver is the GPA 515-16C Alnico and the T/S parameters used are from measurements taken and posted by Gary Dahl over at diyaudio
    Attached Images Attached Images

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    Senior Hostboard Member LowOhms's Avatar
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    Re: Port size reduction, and Efficiency 825 & 828

    Quote Originally Posted by horndawg View Post
    Output reduction in going from 182 in^2 to 78 in^2 occurs basically bellow 100 Hz, where the room dominates and so in practical terms efficiency is not affected. The attached sim assumes a 13 cu. ft. box and the port sizes are 7"x26" and 3"x26". Driver is the GPA 515-16C Alnico and the T/S parameters used are from measurements taken and posted by Gary Dahl over at diyaudio


    Thanks so much !!

    Over July 3rd and 4th, after living with stock reflex ports for two full years, I FINALLY took the time to reduce my stock 825 ports and give a listen.

    Very interesting to hear !!

    I used two regular 12 by 12 inch Patio Stepping stone 16 pound concrete bricks, each placed vertically against the front of the 825 and resting on top of a regular building brick ( to get needed height). This nicely blocks off any part of the stock 825 Bass reflex port.

    So, I got a chance to critically evaluate what opening sounds best to me, into MY room, while playing music.

    At this moment, subject to change and future re-evaluation, I am at about 75 square inches of open port.

    The concrete stepping stones have a 45 degree bevel, about 5/16ths wide, on one side, and THAT is the side I placed against the box, to avoid a sharp 90 degree corner at the port's transition.

    I LIKE using the concrete stepping stones use, to block the ports as its

    (a) inexpensive ,

    (b) EASY to make adjustments and

    (c) NON invasive as far as keeping the 825 stock.

    Heartily recommended to HEAR the effects of port size in one's room, and to one's ears.!

    LOW OHMS....Jeff Medwin
    Last edited by LowOhms; July 5th, 2017 at 12:15 PM.

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    Junior Hostboard Member horndawg's Avatar
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    Re: Port size reduction, and Efficiency 825 & 828

    Glad you were able to experiment and found the port area that best suits your system / room. The following link contains in part a write-up by Pete Riggle on his A7-500 experiments with port area. I found the entire article an interesting read. For the port size experiments, scroll down to about the middle of the page.

    Altec A7 Voice Of Theatre Speakers
    Last edited by horndawg; July 6th, 2017 at 10:01 AM.

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